EP 8: Dating in Your Healing Era with Cory Camp

In this episode of 'Let's Talk Relationships,' I'm thrilled to have Cory Camp as my guest. We get real about personal growth, navigating the dating scene, and truly understanding ourselves. Cory shares his journey, moving beyond the identity of a sportsman and creating 'Forever Athlete,' a platform aiding athletes in their transition to life after sports. Join us as we dive into self-discovery, conflict resolution, the nuances of modern dating, taking emotional risks, and the significance living from our God-given identities. Plus, we tackle the intriguing dynamics of making the first move from both male and female perspectives.

About Cory Camp
Cory Camp is a curious community builder that’s on a mission to help eliminate isolation after sports. 

A former nationally ranked swimmer turned Forever Athlete, Cory has spent much of his time following a successful career at the University of Delaware bringing the sports “zone” into daily life.

This lead to founding Forever Athlete, a social club designed to bring athletes from all backgrounds together in consistent community. From flag football tournaments to weekly workouts & fellowship, Forever Athlete is focused on giving a space for athletes of all to play again.

Links:
https://www.instagram.com/corycamp/
https://www.foreverathletesocialclub.com/home

_____________________________________________________

00:00 Introductions

01:18 Cory's Journey and His Company, Forever Athlete

03:05 The Importance of Vulnerability and Authenticity

03:51 The Role of Podcasting in Cory's Growth

05:34 Transitioning from Acknowledging Problems to Taking Action

06:11 Navigating the Dating World Post-Growth

09:38 The Value of Building Strong Friendships

14:13 The Impact of Ghosting and the Importance of Clear Communication

23:39 The Fear Behind Men's Reluctance to Open Up

28:22 Understanding the Nuances of Relationships

29:10 The Role of Expectations in Relationships

29:43 The Importance of Time and Patience in Cultivating Relationships

32:43 The Fear of Heartbreak and Its Impact on Relationships

33:32 The Role of Identity and Self-Understanding in Relationships

45:34 The Importance of Conflict Resolution in Relationships

50:19 The Role of Social Media in Modern Dating

53:33 The Importance of Clear Communication in Dating

54:57 Final Thoughts on Relationships and Dating

Instagram:@letstalkrelationships_
Website: https://www.theltrpodcast.com/

Transcript

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Let's Talk Relationships.  I've got a really great guest with me today. His name is Corey Camp. Hi, Corey  . and

What's going on?

going on? I've been trying to get this guy on the podcast for a while now, but, timing worked out perfectly and so we're excited to have him on and to talk to him. 

about his journey over the last, I'd say couple of years.  Of just like growth and developing and learning more about himself and and just navigating the relationship dating world. So I'm so excited to have you on Corey. I think you're gonna bring such a good perspective and I feel like my listeners are gonna be really excited to hear from you.

especially from a male's perspective. I think that's so important to  talk to both sides.  so yeah,  you know what's funny? I was thinking about how we met earlier. I was like, I met you through Lauren Donahue  initially.  Yes, in la but, so funny. Shout out to Lauren. Hi, Lauren  . 

Shout out Lauren. I think we're gonna church home.

yes, that's what it was. Oh my God. I think it was your first time back at church.  

it was.

Yeah.

come

We've come a lot.

talk

We've got so much to talk about  . I love it. But, yeah, give us a little background.  You've accomplished so much over the last, I think what, five years and so I don't wanna misspeak on what you're working on and what you're doing. 

so tell us a little bit about who Corey Camp is. 

Such a good question. first off, thank you for having me.  really honored and excited and just grateful for the space, first and foremost.  for those that aren't familiar.  With me. for a while I would identify as just an athletic dude. that was the only identity that I really held true to for a while.

Swam, growing up, swam in college,  so at a pretty high level, and then felt very lost when that was all said and done. So the past really, like six, seven years here, has been dedicated to exploring who am I outside of that identity of just an athlete, and how can I then help other athletes really eliminate that isolation feeling after the  is over, and that's where the company that I've built Forever Athlete comes into play. We do community events. We do,  an online platform that is geared towards just helping people with a, like-minded,  um, and similar background, connect more and closely and do so with a consistent cadence.  And by the time this is out,  have opened a gym here

Yes.

Austin, Texas.  so I'm excited for that next chapter to give.  has been this like asynchronous social club,  home to come together and connect more frequently?  just been hosting events all over the city, so now we'll have an actual brick and mortar space to come together, which I'm stoked for.

That's incredible. Congrats. I know we were talking about that the other day and I was like, that's so you, and it's so perfect for you. I feel like God totally orchestrated that for you and it's  I gotta love that.  I think something I always.  Admired about you too is,  your willingness in doing all this to be really vulnerable and to actually  tell your truth about what you've been struggling with or what you've been going through.

And I think that's so valuable for men. I feel like that's what I, appreciate about you so much is you're so willing to go there and to  Talk through the hard stuff. The thing is that people don't necessarily wanna talk about or touch on, especially as men.  I just wanna applaud you for that 'cause it for me, I'm, I follow a ton of a variety of people and it's I think that's something that's so special.

it's,  it's a, I'd say it's rare. You don't see it as much. 

I,  I appreciate that. Yeah, I think it, what's really fascinating, it started actually for me through

podcasting. So back in 2019, in that fall, I started what was called the Athletic Mindset Podcast back then.  My whole vision of this was like I was gonna sit down with elite level athletes and talk to them about  that they brought to  elite performances. And what was really cool was I had an opportunity to sit down with NFL players, Olympic gold medalists, world record holders, like the elite of the elite.  that would make my athletic feats look like nothing next to 'em if you put 'em side by side. But it was wild 'cause we started talking and it was.  conversation when we talked about where their mindset was around, like the performance itself.  But we really got to like connect and bond over  things that weren't being really talked about publicly.  the struggles beyond the sport, like figuring out who they were.  And that was really what  encouraged me to say, okay, like I can start opening up about this.  This is what I'm going through. And then all of a sudden now it's met with  there's  thousand other people that are going through this as well.  Okay. I feel a little less alone in this struggle. How do we then support one another? I think is where we collectively

Yeah.

as a next step. Because  social media is this like  cool and powerful tool, but it can also be this very dangerous playground where it will continue to validate whatever experience you hold. And while that's great, especially initially if you're feeling isolated.  Eventually, like it can feel like you just stay stuck and trapped in that cycle. So that's where I've noticed my own journey over these past few years. It's as I'm sharing struggles, whether that be like my relationship with alcohol relationships in general,  it's how do I move from, okay, I feel less alone in this, but where's the actual work get to be done? How do I not just talk about it on online, but actually go live it out in person?

Yeah, I think that's, I think that's where a lot of people get stuck too.  it's like you acknowledge the problem, you see it, or you like, oh, other people are struggling with this too. And it's now what?  what's the, next, I'm curious for you, like what was that moment like for you and how did that even translate?

Into other areas of your life, not just, in athletics, but like in dating. And I know you had said you had taken, you took quite a bit of time off of even dating,  as you were growing and as you were going through that, which I think is  . which I think is great and I don't think a lot of people do that. 

so I do wanna commend you for that. It's Hey, I'm not in a good space. I don't really know who I am. I'm struggling with this. It's like, why would I then try and bring someone else into my world when my world is like just upside down, I don't even know what it is. It's just chaos,  

Yeah,  I spent a majority of my twenties single, or I guess at this point, like half of my twenties, single. So I went through about a five year period where dating just . wasn't a priority. And what was interesting in that was  it initially started  where I was like,  wanna,  focused on career. And I'm sure people hear that all the time where they're like, oh, I can't give you the relationship

Yeah.

I'm just focused on my career right now, which is,  great. But  We also wanna be careful of, are you in, are you prolonging that season? And like missing great opportunities along that, process.  that's what I started to notice at the end of that five year period. For me, it was like, okay, cool. I'm doing all the work on myself. I'm going to therapy, I'm reading the books, I'm taught, having the conversations,  building these really great friendships. I think what was really cool for me in that time was looking at.  do I build a friendship first and foremost with a female  not leading from a space of oh, I think she's really attractive,  gonna go on a date together and we're gonna end up probably sleeping together because that would be like early twenties for sure. That would be like the goal of relationships,  just with how I was raised in the cultural norms.

Then  towards the end of that five year, like single period, that was a really big shift where I was like, I wanna be really intentional in building.  just very neutral.  sex and same sex relationships  that have an actual support system around me so that when I do go into dating and intentionally dating again, like I know I can lean on these people around me.  and that's been like the biggest game changer. But  shifting from like reading and  all this internal work to like actually getting the reps, think is  so invaluable. And that's where a lot of people get caught up, where it's oh, I'm just not ready yet. And there's, you'll never truly be ready,  you gotta watch the film, go practice,  then  go put it into play.  yeah, we're just getting ourselves, I'm just gonna sit around and say, okay, the perfect girl is gonna come along. I'm gonna be swept off my feet and it's gonna be, it's gonna work. It's no, the first relationship back after all that.  didn't work. They're like, that's okay.  learn, you get feedback, and then you move on. 

Yeah. Wow. I think that's, I think that's so powerful too,  is taking that step, like that step toward,  dipping your toe back into the dating scene and doing that. And  I think,  it. We have a fantasy that the right person's gonna come around and all of a sudden I'm gonna, I'm just gonna be a different person and it's gonna be perfect.

And it's  no, that's not how it's gonna work. like you have to put yourself out there and  attempt to dip your toe back in. But I love what you said about,  building a network of friends around you and building kind of a support system.  because I think a lot of, I just, this is in a previous episode, but we talked about,  how some of our wounding gets healed in relationships and that also means like friendships.

So I think.  Cultivating great friendships is practice for cultivating a great romantic relationship. And I don't know that people always think of it that way. It's like your friends are your practice, like your practice for a marriage, for something a little bit more intimate, more serious, because that's where you get to really practice being vulnerable.

And obviously this is with a select few people. This is like your core group of people.  but it's like you do get to practice that. I think that's what's  it's such a good lesson for people. I think that it's like friendships,  . Are Really? Yeah. Like a  pra, I don't know, like a PR practice. 

I think that's beautiful. 

Yeah,  they're, really good playground for

Yeah.

and for practicing boundaries and learning how to communicate and just be clear on where you're at with things, right? Because.  I think for whatever, not for whatever reason, it makes total sense. The moment that we have a romantic interest in someone,  of a sudden we think that the pressure is now

immediately  the way that I relate to this from the athletic world is like I. There was a difference between performing in practice and I could be loose and just there was no stakes, so to speak. And there would be times where I would go out and do a best time in practice just from pushing off the wall and going and swimming, whatever, which was super cool.

It was exciting.  but  where did I, where did it actually matter was actually in the race? If we're looking for quality relationships, it's  It's awesome to have these friendships because you can play loose, you can treat that as a playground. The stakes are a little bit lower, so to speak.  and that allows you the safety then and the confidence then step into relationship and say, Hey, okay.  

that 

if,  for example, we had something planned later today, a date night, but something came up, like I could communicate clearly to you. That, Hey, this is,  unfortunately this came up, but let's, we can't do this anymore. Let's suggest an alternative. But again, hey, I can't make it tonight.

I'm so sorry.  a great practice for if you had

a night and now a conflict is on the schedule. You can  suggest an alternative. I think that's a really practical tool,  that I've, I learned that I wanna share with people is this no, yes, no sandwich.  is exactly that. It's if  comes up and you're a people pleasing person and you really struggle to tell people no, always suggest an alternative. So  you're practicing your no in the first bit. You're saying, Hey, I can't do that anymore. And you're suggesting alternative. That's your actually you saying yes to something that better aligns with you or your schedule or whatever it may be. But then reaffirming the no so that they're clear like, Hey, this just won't work today.

That's okay.

Yeah. Wow. And that's, yeah, that's super important. I think that's something I'm also learning to do a lot more. I wanna say yes to everything  and. I've been learning to be like, I, really have to sit with myself and be like, okay, one, do you have the energy? Two, do you want to go? I've had to ask, really ask myself and then stop and be like, you know what?

I think the best answer is no. And that's so hard for me to say, but it's the practice of being like, Hey, I can't, this evening I've, maybe I'm not, I'm tired or whatnot, but we'll see you around soon. I think that's so valuable to, to be able to practice. 'cause I think a lot of like when, oh, go ahead. 

I was gonna say even shift, like that would be an okay one, but to make it better instead of, I'll see you soon. Like actually suggest  

Yeah.  

Because especially if we're talking relationships  that I. That will actually drive someone who, if we wanna get into like

Oh yeah. Love it.

who's like anxious attached or like leans towards  answer of Hey, I can't tonight, but like soon  you've just like totally

Yeah.

them.

They're spinning all their wheels and being like, oh my gosh,  he even like me? Does she even like me?

Yeah, it's true.

on? so I think as men, like we can be better about communicating that. And then same as female,  it, goes both

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that communication breakdown is usually where relationships go south anyways. It's really being able to  communicate that, oh my god. Yeah, we haven't even gone into attachment theories on this podcast yet because I feel like that's gonna be  a whole other realm. 

but yeah, no, I, totally see that, and I think that even solves the problem of preventing people from ghosting and, things of that nature. Because we see that a lot in the dating scene and I hear people, they're like, you don't owe this person anything. I'm like, you don't, but you do owe 'em a little bit of integrity,  and being able to communicate. 

I think it's just good.

Yeah.

It's good practice, right?  yeah. it's unfortunately, it's so easy to

Oh, for sure. 

in today's day and world or day and age because they're.  can talk about this of there's an abundance of choice out there, whether it be you're on the dating apps or you're not on the dating apps.

I get asked all the time, like, how are you meeting people, Corey, like, how are, how does, how do you go on dates? And I was like, believe it or not, I deleted all my dating apps three, three and a half, four years ago.  because out of really the start of Covid, as soon as the world shut down, I was like, this is stupid. Why am I gonna connect with someone virtually?  There's no,  there's no timetable of when we might be allowed to meet

Yeah.

So  whatever I'm done with these things, got rid of 'em. And people are like, okay, now how do you meet people? It's Instagram essentially is a dating app in and of itself.  and it can be challenging because whether it be your dating apps, your Instagrams of the world, it doesn't really matter. The  downside towards relationship is there's this abundance of

Yeah. 

And where that can become a slippery slope  is if the moment you face any sort of friction or you go on that one date, or they say something a little bit off in just the initial texting phase and you're like, oh, I got the ick.

Like I'm done. This person, I not my person.  You can't, it's easy to ghost because you know in the back of your head, there's really an infinite number of

Yeah.

high quality options available to me behind this screen, so I'm gonna go there.  And just because it's easy to go that route doesn't mean we should.  think it's great practice.

Absolutely. 

I'm a huge believer of just yeah, you're not vibing that person.  It doesn't need to be the most complex text. It could be two sentences. Hey, I really don't see you as more than a friend. I really appreciate this conversation in the period getting to know one another.  I would love to continue to support you as a friend, if you would, or if you wouldn't, don't say

Yeah.

and just wishing you all the best. You know what I mean? Like it could be as simple as that.

No, I, a hundred percent. I'm like, everyone listening, just type that out in your notes and save it.  , like I,  I, couldn't agree anymore. It's like you can copy and paste it and send it to somebody if you're not interested, or if you don't wanna go on a second date or, whatnot. And it's it's the simplest thing.

You don't even, yeah, you don't have to call 'em, you don't just have to be this long conversation. And it's just crazy that people just don't do it. Like I've, I was set up with somebody a couple months ago, so it was like through a mutual friend and the date was fun. It was fine.  And then I never heard from him again.

And I'm like, we have a mutual friend. So now this is weird. I'm like, you could simply be like, it was so great meeting you. I don't see anything romantic, but yeah, I'll see you around because I will see you around because you are, we are in similar, circles. So I always find that. So it's not that hard   to just send that, and it's like, gosh, it's so frustrating for a lot of people.

we,  I think.  To be fair, we, one, we overthink that,

Yeah.

think that's gonna be harsh

Yes.

and  to receive that message  it, if anything, I would say that's like the kindest thing you could actually be doing  clearly communicating where you're at.  It might be harsh in that moment, but I promise both of you would be really appreciative of

for sure.

in the long term.

The fact that.  feel the need to tell

Yeah.

a few months later, obviously it was like, oh, okay. that was actually a la more lasting harm,

Yeah.

to speak,  than if you just received that text right after a few days later said, Hey, I really reflected on our time together. You're great person.  not my person 

Yeah.

point. I wish you the best.  It's okay, awesome.  Let's, go

exactly.

from

Exactly. And I, and it's  Yeah, I use that example just because it's, I feel like when I meet someone on, an app, I'm like, okay, what? I don't even know. You, we've no mutual friends. there's the bar is so low at that point,  , but I think when you have mutual friends and you see them often, it's like, it's just, it's, always  surprising to me,  that, that doesn't happen, And it doesn't happen a lot. Like I hear that with so many friends complaining about it. They're like, yeah, they just never said anything. And I think, I've asked people like, why do you not send the text? Why? And they're like, oh, I feel bad. Or I, and I'm like, I just wanna call crap because I'm like, I think it's 'cause you don't wanna feel bad.

It's not about the other person. Like  I think people say that, but truthfully I think it's really a little bit selfish. I think it's that we just don't wanna feel awkward and we don't wanna go through that feeling our of our like on our own.  it's not as much. If you were really thinking about the other person you would send a text,  

Yeah,  ghosting allows us to  defer any sort of

Go for sure.

in a way

For sure.

we can just, we kinda 

huh.

under

the 

oh, it's a big deal.

it's all fun.  it's all great until like you meet that person that you're like, oh my gosh, like we really vibed. And then it doesn't happen, or it happens to you  and then you're sit there  bro, what the heck?

Like she didn't even text me back. I thought we were really vibing.  so lost. I'm so confused.  And you're like,  hey,  also you can send that text, if you're on the receiving end of that and you feel like. You're being ghosted and you really, truly feel like there was a connection there.  It doesn't hurt to reach out, like you're not, we're always so worried of  communication will be perceived, as long as you're direct and clear, which takes practice.  I am of the camp of that is always preferred to me.  I'm okay with be direct with me, be harsh.  I don't mind. I would rather have certainty. Than enclosure. Than sitting in my anxious mind being like, maybe that could have been the one

Yeah.

deal,

I think that's a good point and I don't think I ever even really think about it on that end is to,  if you feel like you're being ghosted to actually  . Okay to reach out because so many, like online, all these dating coaches, a lot of people like, oh no, just forget them. If they didn't text you back, they're not your person.

Move on.  but it's interesting to like really think about that.  do you just, yeah, do you just send something like, Hey, I haven't heard from you from a week. if you aren't interested, it'd be great just to note, to hear from you and to know that versus,  just ignoring me. Maybe you don't say it that way, but the gist of what the text would say. 

I think that's,  I think, yeah.

I,  I think  there's no harm in that because if you're sitting, if you're sitting in a space where you're continually thinking about that, you're getting caught up  realistically putting yourself in a position to actually move forward,  that's okay.  Acknowledge it.  Recognize it. Otherwise, like You resist continues to

Yeah.

So if you're like continually caught up on that person  the idea of that person,  get clarity of who that person actually is by communicating that. You know what I mean? Like  you can't control what happens on the other side. I think what's fascinating when we're talking about relationships is like.  It reminds me oftentimes of, that dividing door in hotel rooms, like sometimes if you get hotel rooms with

Oh yeah.

friends and like you split,  side by side and you have that door that goes back and forth between the two.  Thankfully, most hotels, all hotels  you to unlock said door from both sides.  it's not if you don't know the person on the O in the other room, you can't just decide to unlock the door

Yeah.

into their room and say, Hey, what's up? I'm Beatrice guys. I'm here for a good time.  They have to

Yeah. Yeah.

consent to unlocking that door. And it's the same thing with relationship is  all relationships is this constant  of are you willing to unlock your door?

And I'm willing to unlock my door and we can then potentially explore the nuance and meeting in the middle and getting to know each other.  That's what's also really frustrating is because  sometimes  that person  you aren't, you might be subconsciously locking your own door and you don't even

That too.

Guys do that a lot where we just shut down and we're like, I just don't understand it. And you're like, oh, like you're just like surface level of vulnerability

Yeah.

with it versus  actually unlocking and going there with this person. No wonder they don't feel like an emotional connection.  I. On the other side, it's like that potential partner  or your current partner has locked their door.  And that's where it becomes this delicate, beautiful dance of okay, how do we give that space? How do we let them know that hey, it's safe to unlock that door.  And again, that's where communication comes into like play there.

what do you feel  like, why do you feel like men fear to unlock that door?  what is the fear behind,  unlocking that from a guy's perspective? 

So when I was in DC what Really sucked in the dating scene there. From my perspective  for context, I was born and raised in the DC area, and I remember when  was like 23, 24 years old, that was when I was going through this like post sport.  Transition the hardest.  had really no idea who I was, what I wanted to do.

I was drinking lot.  and I had a problem  alcohol and for context, I'm now, that was a lot, like really what inspired a lot of my sober journey was  building a better relationship with alcohol so I could build better relationships with

around me and making sure that those relationships were built on like a firm foundation rather than Oh yeah.

We just, we're thinking Each other is attractive. And when we get drunk, we have a good time

Yeah.

this is the best relationship for me. It's no, that, that's just a fun time

Yeah. It's like surface and, yeah.

not gonna be the person that's gonna help me.

Yeah.

Exactly. And same thing with friendships.  but back when I was in DC especially at that time, like that was what I was doing every weekend.  And a lot of why I drank was because  like how I was feeling about myself during

the I wanted to drown that out and I would. Go out to these bars  and I remember talking to girls, oh,  DC Like East Coast in general, like the number one question you like, first question, what do you

Yeah. Yeah.

if you meet in someone?

It's what's your name? What do you do?  And it's a great like  vetting question because you're essentially being,  being very selective. You want to make sure that your partner.  Or potential partner or even someone that you're just gonna sleep with that night is like a high value person.  And at that time I was a swim coach, a and a lifeguard.  I was making ends meet. And I was doing both of those like at a really high level  which was crazy 'cause I was able to, live on my own  so. But  in people's immediate perception, if I'm, I could be hitting it off, having a great conversation with a girl. Then she hears, oh, I'm a swim coach and a lifeguard. She's immediately shut down, locks that door. And so then my reaction, what I learn is,  if I want to be successful in even having  a shot with  or  to know someone on a deeper level,  I need to now hide  I do for a living because of  I'm worried about their perception of that.  And  I think that's why men, because there is this expectation on us that we need to be the leaders in the relationship we're looked to  at as, Hey, you are meant to lead us.  if you wanna look at it through the Christian dating lens, like men are called to submit to  God and then women are  called to submit to their husband or submit to their partner in that order. And we need to get that  right. And if we're trying to lead, but we don't feel like we have our

Yeah.

together, then that's a really challenging space to lead from. And there's this fear of,  if I unlock my door  you see how messy my apartment is,  I don't know. You might not like it. You might judge me. And then it becomes real. 

And what's interesting is.  In order for us to truly be loved, we have to be willing to not be liked. For us to experience

Yeah.

intimacy in our life, we have to be willing to show that mess and say, Hey,  I trust you enough for you to not quickly judge what at its surface,  you're willing to work with me as I clean this up, or you don't even need to help me. I just need you to know  this part of my life, it's not in order, but.  I'm really trying, and I, hope that you trust me in that  vice versa. All right?  no one in today's world has  all of the buckets

No

perfectly put together.  that's a not a real

Yeah. 

And so we gotta stop thinking like that's the ideal picturesque thing  we gotta start with. It's, yeah, it's not letting people in on our deepest, darkest traumas

Yeah.

our past life, but  Hey,  I'm in a space right now where honestly like I'm figuring out the

Yeah. 

and  hopefully being open to say, okay, cool. Same

Yeah. 

You know what I mean? that's often what in DC I would imagine 90% of those girls that were immediately shutting down.  Probably it's to some varying degree or also  I don't know what I'm doing in my career, and it's very clear that like he doesn't have the consulting job or the lawyer. He's in politics.  So because I don't have it figured out, how could he doesn't have it figured out, this won't work. It's  what if we tried to figure it out together?

Yeah.

Who knows? We wanna try to sit in that nuance, but the nuances  time, and we're just in a world where we feel like time is so limited.

So we wanna make that decision really quick.  It's let's go slow. let's explore the nuance.  don't have to get married on date one

Exactly.

that's how we

No, it's true. And  I think we try to avoid heartbreak and,  and like disappointment.  and I think that's why we keep our expectations maybe a little bit unrealistic and incredibly high,  because it's almost in a way, a little safer.  . Like I, sometimes I, I feel that way. I'm like, the thing that I really want sometimes scares me and I'm like, am I my expectation's just so unrealistically high that it in a way, like something I can hide behind.

oh, you don't meet all these things, so let me just goodbye. But I think that's so true. It's like we take the time to really cultivate the, also the friendship behind really getting to know someone before, immediately writing them off, based on two, three things that we're like, eh, about,  It's I feel like we just don't, we don't invest that time in people anymore.  and we are really quick to write people off.

think,  yeah, we do that because  it leaves a

Oh yeah,

open  we can Irish goodbye and say, okay, 

yeah,

work. Like they had this, and this wrong. And I'm not saying like there's definitely, there's case

for sure.

There will be relationships where it absolutely makes sense that like you need to get out of there and that and you'll know.

But  In general, what I've noticed, it's  almost like playing, like I played video games with my little 

and my brother was more into video games than I was,  it was the classic,  if he ever beat me, my first go-to excuse was, I wasn't trying, I wasn't trying Scott, so you didn't actually beat me. just, I wasn't trying my hardest.  And again, that allows us to defer responsibility. It prevents it from actually being real, but I. By you not trying,  you  off the hook and you can say, okay, I can sleep easier now. But it's, that's preventing you from the thing that you actually want. The thing that you're most afraid of  is what you need to go do to get what you actually want.  So even if you have the unrealistic expectations  are  actually a way of you not trying,

Oh yeah.

in relationship. Because if you hold this like.  10 out of 10 standard for everyone. This perfect image of people, guess what? You're gonna be highly disappointed because newsflash, we live in an imperfect world.

Okay.

Everyone here we are flawed. We have something that we are currently working on and probably a lot more that we don't even know that we have to work on.  But the beautiful part of relationship, whether it be relationship with self or relationship with others, is this.  Blending of that grace and truth and having true self-compassion and love for one another and for self, that allows you to start to work through those flaws and say, okay,  how do I get a little bit better at this? Is this person my partner right now,  there, a flaw here?  And how can I support them in working through that? What does that look like? Or what's better for both of us? Would it make sense to create space and allow them to heal and all heal and. Maybe down the road, who knows what might happen.  Again, it's relationships are tough because it's dynamic. We want, we expect other people to work like

Yeah. 

We just like program in a certain thing.  take them on the five dates and then  input. That's the input. What's the output?

Yeah.

unfortunately it's not that easy.

Yeah. It's like we have to be willing to endure a heartbreak in order to enter a relationship, like because that may possibly happen, and I think when we try to avoid it is when we shut our shut parts of ourselves down or don't allow someone to see us because we're just trying to protect ourselves.

Really what it is, a protection mechanism, and it's like.  Love with love comes risk. With love comes heartbreak. With love comes the possibility of deep heartbreak.  but that's the risk we're willing to take for the thing we really want,  And,  they go hand in hand. 

Yeah. You have to be willing to risk,  Risk is  actually  what, again, what gets you to the other side and knowing that, think what really helps in getting

okay  is if you  individually. A lot of the work that I've had to do, especially lately,  been getting clear on  Who God has made me to be

and understanding that is unconditional  my,  identity as a child of God is unconditional.  so  I do my best practice daily to tap into that identity, into that posture,

Yeah.

I can then step into whatever arena, whether it be stepping into this podcast, going on social media,  day-to-Day interactions that I have. I know that I'm good regardless.  I know that he's got me, so therefore I can risk and I actually want to risk because of that image that I was created in.

And I get excited and I am willing to like press that

Yeah.

a little bit more and risk a little bit more and bring a better effort to the table and see what happens as a result. And that's where I think people get caught up is.  We get so focused on our worldly identities. How am I viewing myself and how is the world viewing

first and foremost? And then we like sprinkle in that last little bit that,  unconditional. Oh, okay. yeah, Cool. Jesus died for our sins and child of God. Okay, great.  What if we lead with that? What if you center with that and then everything that you choose to do today is an expression of that identity, that core unconditional who you were created by. You asked me at the very beginning like, who are you?  What are you? I was like, I love that question. And I think the better answer it is,  I'm a creator, I'm a community builder, I'm a cultivator, and I just.  I love  bringing people together and making people feel like they're the most special person  the world.

Like when I, throw an event, what I really feel like God has put on my heart is this innate ability to welcome someone into a space where they immediately feel at home and they immediately feel comfortable.  And I just love doing that and I know that.  Is showing up in the events that I get to host,  or it's showing up in the podcast. It's showing up in the conversation that I have with someone,  but that comes from an unconditional source. And when I get clear on that,  I  might, yes, I might get hurt if the conversation doesn't go well or that connection that I was really hoping panned out didn't pan out. But I know that he's given me the peace and the strength to move forward  and that's been a,  honestly, the biggest lesson for me this year  been exactly that. 

get clear on that unconditional view of self

Yeah.

in his image, and then lead from that in everything that I do.

Wow. That's awesome to hear. Especially coming from,  just  a, guy like, I know I, I say that a lot, but it's sometimes we just don't see that enough and it's just, it's awesome. I think that's,  like I even look, I think about myself too. It's  . I'm able to even do something like this, like a podcast.

Because I know that my, my identity isn't God and it's not about me. It's like I find that the things that God pushes me to do, it's like, it's not about me. It's about glorifying him. It's about him in those things. So it allows me to risk, because  I wasn't like, oh, I wanna start a podcast. I was like, a podcast. 

Why?  let me just share everything with everyone, I was like, this can't be right. And so it's just, it's . So beautiful when you say yes to that and you say yes to your identity in God and you say yes to what he has called you to do, like he runs the show and it's not about you. It's like he works through you.

And it's so awesome to see because  it helps take a little bit of the ego out of things as well,  and it allows you to see things so differently. 'cause it's not self-serving. It's how do I glorify you in this? How do I,  and it's like even this podcast, like finding people to interview and it's just, it's worked out so seamlessly and the conversations have been so amazing and it's yeah, 'cause I didn't make it about myself.

I made it about God, like I made it about what did he like, what do you want me to do today? What do you want me to talk about?  And it's so backwards from like people, what people had told me, oh, you gotta plan all your podcasts and write out a script and do all this. And I was like, . But that's me doing it Then, it's like how do I let God work through me and to do it?

So I think that's, so that's really, I'm like super encouraged by this conversation,  . So I like, I love hearing that from you. 'cause I'm like, it's a reminder to me like, like my career, all that like doesn't really like at the end of the day, it's the specifics of it doesn't really matter, but it's like what did God create me to be and how am I living my life through that lens? 

And that's encouraging.

let's

Yeah.

dating, right?  if you apply that, the same framework that you just said around podcasting, and I, can attest to that too, like the first 20 episodes that I  recorded back in 2019 into 2020. Absolute trash, because  I,  I would literally, with my guests, I'd get so nervous, I would be like, oh my gosh, I'm sitting down with  idol that I, grew

Yeah. 

in the swimming world today, and he's a  record holder and he has all these medals and all these accolades,  I'm gonna, I need to list out my 20 questions so that I'm  really prepared.  I wanna impress him. I wanna wow him. So I'm gonna  overanalyze all this. And  I would  to his response, but I wasn't listening. I was just waiting for him to stop talking to then ask the next question

Yeah.

list. And in doing so,  I over-prepared and I would miss the beauty of what was actually being

Yeah.

in the moment.

And I think we do that in dating all the time. We like,  don't, again, we don't sit in that nuance. we're trying to

move We're trying to check the boxes. Okay. We connected great. Like we flirted back and forth five times and then the dating coach told me after those five messages, we need to move it off of the app and into texting.

And then after those 10 messages there, if we don't have a date scheduled, then I don't know, it's probably not worth gonna work out. It's probably not worth my time.  It's stop getting so  rigid in this and allow  free flowing connection to  Happen. You can't force 

You can't force connection upon anyone. The most beautiful intimacy, real intimacy is

very.

Regardless.  don't care how fast of a connection you guys have, you can have chemistry that's different than real intimacy. Real intimacy just takes time  and we're  Pressed where it's do these five things.  these three questions to build better relationships, to build

Yeah.

intimacy with your partner.  guess what? Intimacy isn't built in one conversation. It's not built in one date. It's built over continually having these deeper conversations, continued reps  over and over again. And so when we're

whether it be a podcast or you're sitting down on a first date.  I can't tell you how many times,  you, I got so nervous sitting down on the first date, same as I would idolize the Olympian, I'd idolize

Yeah.

oh, their Instagram, they look like this, and this. I really hope this works out. She's a freaking model.  that's the partner that I want to have.  No,  I, that would, if I go in with that lens, I'm gonna miss the true beauty of potential connection there in front of me, because I'm just stuck in

Yeah.

image that I've created

and  created around this partner, and I've placed that on them with, without their consent. I've already built it in my head. I've looked at their feed. And so what some of the practical ways to fight against that.  What if we don't  had someone  recently,  she was giving me a hard time. She's you didn't follow me back on Instagram.  And I was like, yeah, I like, we didn't know each other, so I was like, I wanted to get to know you first before I followed you back on Instagram. And  I also want them  tell me about their life

Yeah.

rather than me see it on the stories or going through the feed.  so I prac practical advice for people. It's Hey, today's day and age, like maybe do a little bit of research, but from a guy's perspective, like I challenge guys not to go  go scrolling through the, girl's feed being like, oh my gosh.

what does she get up to?  Just  explore that with her. let her be the one to tell you this and the things that are on her feed, or, and you'll probably learn things that aren't posted on there anyway. And

that's  that's real,  where real connection happens,  through the  Potential thing,  curated photo that then you start to imagine

Yeah.

that vacation with

Yeah.

like she's wearing that dress with you, whatever it

then I wonder too, we make these stories up in our head. We have these expectations, and then when they do one thing.  That now doesn't meet this most likely false expectation that we had based on one photo that they posted. We're like, he's just not it. It's just, it drove me crazy.

He did this one thing and it's just, ugh, I don't like him. And I'm like, what?  And it's gosh, do we, it's are we just missing partners that maybe are right in front of us?  because of maybe our expectations are just un,  I, think about that a lot.  did I ever pass someone up?

'cause I, had some . Dumb like idea or  , but I wonder like I see so many amazing people that are single  and  I'm like, why? I, that's like why I started this problem. I'm like, why? I want to get to the bottom of this  . you are amazing. You are amazing. We're all single,  I know we've all worked on ourselves.

We've all done it. But what is the barrier? I feel like there is this massive barrier and it's like how do we like  break through it? Especially like in the church and like through, even just in this little, my little bubble of West la  I just always, not that I'm gonna be the answer, but I'm just like, how as a collective do we like improve  this dating world and dating scene and not have to make it so horrible?

So that's like.  . Everyone I talk to, like we always, and I'm talking about relationships and it's always Ugh, dating, ugh. it's no one's ever been like, oh, I actually enjoy getting to know people and it's fun and it's, and I just think I want, is it our expectations going into dating?

if we like the way you're talking about it, if we would just went into a first date as I'm just getting to know this person, like Anna a just do I like you? Do I have anything in common with you? Versus am I gonna marry you? Are we gonna be, are you gonna be my boyfriend? Or like going 15 steps,

Before, and I, it's like it ruins the first date before it even started. 

It's not a job

No

right? Like you're not trying to fill,  not like you have a vacancy in your life and you're trying to fill it. And if you are,  that's your first problem. 

Yeah.

that's why you're relationships

Yeah,

is because you're trying to ask people to be an employee 

yeah.

in your life or a piece of your life, and.  You can't place roles on the

other that they don't

no.

You know

It's yeah.

not

Yeah. It's 

I always laugh when I see the,  yeah. Have you seen the, people,  uh, people put out like, oh, here's my boyfriend

oh yeah. 

go submit.  like, what are we doing? You know what I mean?

Honestly.

that's, a big,  I don't know,  I, won't, I hate the word red flag, but that's definitely something that I'd be like, okay, proceed with

Yeah.

If you're seeing that sort of stuff, proceed with Cosham,  there. I think too,  I know Icks were like a big thing a few years ago. People like how, like they're just, we're always gonna get what we look for. And for me, like the biggest ick  for me, I immediately get turned off from my perspective if  I see that they are un, a potential partner is unwilling to explore the nuance of a particular issue or a miscommunication.  Because if that happens, and there's a difference between being standing for something and like truly 

Yeah.

in something versus,  let's explore this complex issue, whatever it may be, because there's gonna be newsflash disagreements in your relationship at some point.  How do you handle conflict Resolution is  huge  Success or metric of where is this relationship gonna go?  if you can't handle  then  that's not like I know, at least I can ly say that's not the partner that I want

Yeah. Yeah. I even  I've read a lot of John Gottman's work and he talks about like couples that can,  turn toward each other and really resolve conflict. It's not that, that they have conflict. Everyone will have conflict, but it's how they come out of the conflict will determine the success of the relationship. 

Like they'll, it'll determine also how long someone can actually be in a relationship. And I feel like conflict resolution is so vital to any relationship, friendships,  families, like all of that. I feel again, that we, like we talked about earlier, that all can be practiced within  . Friendship. It can be practiced within your, your immediate circles.

But yeah, I think that's a, huge one that I don't think people look at a lot. I think we look at some of the more surface things and we forget the things that will actually make the relationship last and give substance to the relationship.  We put a lot of emphasis on,  I talked about this in another podcast,  like suit suitability versus compatibility.

It's like I can be compatible with 30 people. We like the same things. We're both into the same sports. We like to work out. We're healthy people. that's all great. But that's also, I could be that with so many people. So many guys, And so it's really understanding are we suitable for one another?

Can we resolve conflict? Do we turn toward each other like  ? is there like true deep intimacy? Can we build it? all that stuff I think is so important  and,  I think, we're also not even taught to like, look for these things. It's like how, the only reason I feel like I, I know to look for them is 'cause I've done a lot of the work and I've researched a lot.

'cause I got really interested in understanding, what makes a relationship work. Like I got out of one and I was like, I don't think I even know what to look for. I don't even know what's important. And I, did the work on my own 'cause I didn't have great examples. But I just think in general, like 

I don't know. We're just not really taught that, like how do you know if you don't have the examples or you're not really digging and reading and trying to understand how they work. But,  yeah, I think there's just a lot of those things that we just don't, we don't know to look for.  Yeah.

Yeah. I think to your point there of  doing that work and exploring the nuance, that's where people shift from like an 

of oh, I like the idea of this person as a partner to an actual, let's put this

Yeah.

practice. This could be something real.  and we like to keep things.  It's

Of course.

as ideas because again, like you're off the hook, no responsibility.

It's ah,  yeah, I could date.  the gym, because like 

on the same values like could date, from church, like whatever it may be.  but we have to be willing to move it into, if you want relationship, actually you have to be willing to move it into, okay, like press play. Go, go for it, explore it. Um, it doesn't mean it doesn't come without.  It doesn't come without

No.

this other stuff, but  you gotta be willing to say is that worth it? And  I think deep down  fun. Like we were designed to be in a relationship. We were designed not to do life

Yeah, absolutely.

So  a calling to explore all this, but it's also a responsibility to understand like, yes, am I doing the work  to show up to that calling as my best version of

Yeah. 

And that is something that is dynamic and that takes time and that will,  but yeah,

I love it.

it's

Now I have a le not a left field question, but from a guy's perspective,

Yeah.

how do you feel about a girl making the first move? Because I've been, ha this has been a topic of discussion amongst friends of mine over the last couple weeks, and I'm curious from a guy's perspective,  how do you feel about a woman making the first move?

Whether it's just Hey, I wanna get coffee. Hey, do you wanna hang out?  curious, have you experienced it? And two, what do you feel about, how do you feel about it? 

yeah. I had a, an instance  last year actually,  where.  Like pro tip for any guys out there if you're struggling to get dates, do something like this.  I put out a piece of content on TikTok where I said, these are the after five years single, these are the five green flags I'm looking for in a relationship.

And I listed out five things that were important for me and a potential partner. And a lot of it had to do with communication identity of their themselves outside of relationship. Like they're not dependent on the relationship and deriving their value from that.  one, someone that is ambitious towards a certain goal, and we can support one another and all that.

And  was really funny out of that, like the video did really well,  we're talking  millions of views and all of a sudden my  inbox was flooded with girls from all over the world  making that first move, being like, I fit your five green flags. I am this. 

kudos,   to them. 

I think  how they  led,  really determined  if I even responded in the first place,  let alone  my like, do I like this or not?  And I think when it's led from a place of  Hey,  I really liked what you had to say there. It was really thought provoking. I would like to explore or

talk  I was way more likely to say, yeah, let's go and explore this.  on the flip side, you have people out there,  women were sending me just naked

Oh my God.

video. I'm like, what? Like in what world

Oh my God.

flags lead you to assume that? I wanted nudes from you? 

Wow. This unlocked a whole thing. I didn't know.

that's not gonna work. 

Oh man.

You didn't know.  social media is 

Wow.

wild, west of sorts out there.  I think from my perspective, at least  one, it's  it, if I was younger and more immature and hadn't done the work and actually was looking for like a solid relationship,  I would've been like, oh my gosh, dudes like, this is so cool.

they're sending me pictures, look at this. Whereas then I was immediately turned out off. I.  You miss the

Yeah.

that's not who I want as a partner.  that's a short term  fun  the moment, like  in pleasure.  if what we're looking for is intimacy, real relationships, deeper fulfillment and

Yeah.

in our lives,  gonna have to say no to those short-term pleasures. And that's been a theme of my life over the past few years, is like intentionally 

short-term pleasure.  explore the nuance of deeper relationship, deeper enjoyment. All of that to say, I think  I'm not opposed to it.  however,  I do think it's good practice for guys to say, Hey,  communicate, like if you're interested in someone,  Hey, I would like to take you out to dinner.  I've learned that,  sometimes that's not even clear enough. It has to be, I would like to take you out on a date to dinner and go from there.

Go from there. So gimme an example of what would be appropriate for a girl to say, to reach out if she was interested in someone and she's wanting to just just drop, not a hint, but be a little bit more direct. 

A little bit more direct, ask a question  spark a conversations  just like the hey or like liking the, because I feel like that's.  we all do now. It's like the ins or the Facebook pokes

Oh yeah.

the day have now become like, oh,

Yeah.

likes all my stories.  you're like,  okay,

It means nothing. Yeah.

I know there's this,  yeah, there's this like cutesy. Let's play the game of, we're just tiptoeing around. We're putting little feelers out. see if they pick up on it.  I think what would be really, what would really stand out from my perspective, if someone  sees something that I post or  'cause I think that's, where a lot of this is happening or in

person.  Like actually ask an engaging question.  If you're genuinely curious about someone, ask an engaging question

Yeah.

and you, again, that doesn't mean like you're getting married off the  conversation. Just like  it opens the door from your side and it's inviting someone else into the conversation. That's all we can do. 

Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. 'cause I've had so many conversations recently where it's both women are like, and I'm in the middle. I'm not really sure where I stand with it, but it's I want the man to pursue entirely and I don't wanna have to like, reach out or say anything.

And then other women are like, no, if I like the guy, I'm just gonna go out and ask him. I dunno, there's a right or wrong, but it's always interesting to get people's perspective on it. But,  Corey, thank you. So much. This was, honestly, I'm like super encouraged by this conversation.  I, thanks for blessing me with it because I, it's leaving me with a lot of things to go and think about. 

it's just refreshing to hear, I guess hear this from a male, a Christian that's  living in the same world that, I'm living in and it's just,  it's just encouraging. It's a really encouraging conversation. So I appreciate you so much for coming on and really, giving us a lot of nuggets and some great wisdom, for our listeners. 

Beatrice, thank you for having me. It's so good to see you. Hopefully I'll see you in person